ADCI and OSHA still fighting for their 3 Man Dive Team!

I am incensed. I am speechless (well, not entirely). I am furious and completely underwhelmed. ADCI participated with us throughout the NOSAC activities. ADCI hear our UNANIMOUS call for changing this. And for consolidation of authority to the USCG. 

It is clear that this made them regroup and after their silence which us naive puppies took as support of our recommendations, they come out with this bomb. This disappointing show of lack of concern for the individuals which make the bucks for the companies they support.

Astounding. They should be a government office.

In addition, I clearly recall bringing up the certificated vessel question and being CLEARLY told by the USCG that certificated or not, did not matter. USCG regs. held. 

 

Pushing to perpetuate a mediocre bare minimum, supporting businesses who claim they can't be compete when they care for the safety of their divers is PATHETIC!!! 

Kyra and all, hear this please: ADCI does not, nor has it ever given a rat's ass about the safety of the diver. They are the Association of Diving Contractors, and they do not deserve a seat at the table when it comes to a discussion about diver safety. They should have absolutely no input. All of us have got to be really vocal on this, and we have to try to have this contractor's lobby group removed - they do not belong!! That is the same as getting the fox's input into the safety of the hen-house.

 

On minimum crew size; anyone with half a brain who has ever actually worked on either end of the diving hose will tell you that trying to operate safely with a three-man crew is like trying to brush an alligator's teeth: somebody is going to get hurt or die sooner or later. This BS has got to stop.

If they have not answered the comments already made and do not give a good reason for reopening and who requested it without an answer to the comments already made: The Divers Association will do a freedom of information act to get that information.

I am British, so no doubt will receive a right royal slagging for this.

 

And I'm a fossil to boot.  The kind of rather vintage fossil that remembers the 1970s and American divers arriving in the UK (Over paid, over sexed and over here…happy days!)

 

"You" brought the north sea 'modern'  surface supplied techniques (Lightweight helmets and neoprene instead of polished brass and soggy leather boots lined with lead), mixed gas and saturation.

 

But 40 years on and the world has changed, it has evolved, it has moved on light years from what were, with hindsight and without a doubt, truly the bad old days.

 

But not the ADCI it seems.

 

Still no independent verification, still a few dollars and certificates by post, Dynamic Positioning still in the last century.

 

And still promoting commercial three man teams……….???

 

I have always argued - and still do - and will continue to do so as long as they exist - that a good American diver is as good as (If not better!) than any commercial diver in the world, but the ADCI seems intent on clinging to minimum standards that the rest of the world no longer accepts, of devaluing commercial diving, on nothing short of destroying the reputation of American commercial diving in the eyes of the world - it seems that to the ADCI, there is no sensible minimum standard, just the lowest possible denominator.

 

Harsh words, and for that I apologise, but it kind of irritates me to see the ADCI shrinking to the status of a third world organisation of ever diminishing influence when it should be out there as a recognised industry leader, a world standard.

 

I understand what has been said above about the ADCI being an organisation for contractors, not for divers, but that still does not make it fun watching an organisation promoting devalued safety standards for the people who keep it in business.

 

Sad days.

 

Tim

Well said Tim. ADCI does not have the good sense to be ashamed. Their motto is "Safety through Education".

 

What a joke that is - they push for standards that are lower than those in "third world" countries, just so the contractors can make more money. It would not surprise me if they push for lower fines when they kill divers as well, they are parasites. 

 

The blood of a lot of young divers is on their hands already, and this will just add to it. .

The ADCI is driven by the profit margins of the companies they represent. They are not driven by the safety of the divers that those companies employ.

 

Personally I believe it is time that ADCI was disbanded, and IMCA guidance was used throughout, including inshore.

 

Unfortunately I am sure that Americans will see this as an affront to their ability to govern themselves so will continue with ADCI.

Mmmm, whilst I would argue that IMCA isn't perfect, it does now work competently in multiple languages, it is accepted by industry, class societies and national legislators pretty much everywhere and it has by far the best, most comprehensive and coherent set of guidance for commercial diving operations in the world.

 

And you are right, it can easily be adapted to cover inshore and inland diving operations.

 

Fact. IMCA truly is a world standard.

 

And one could also argue that, again whilst perhaps not perfect, somewhat strangely for a trade body run by contracting organisations, IMCA promotes diver standards and safe diving practices very well indeed.

 

And that does raise the holy grail of questions in the current debate of just why the ADCI is so belligerently indifferent to the safety of divers at work?

 

Or, apparently, capable of taking a world view.

 

I don't like monopolies, they encourage complacency and abuse, I would like to see a viable alternative to IMCA (however small a minority alternative it might be), it would be healthy for the industry.

 

But on present performance, it is not now, and if they keep this up, it sure as heck will not be in the future, the ADCI.

 

Empires come and go, and in reality, history has no respect for sentiment, so I suppose the ADCI throwing it's own credibility out of the window in a fit of self destructive greed will eventually just be a minor footnote in the story of commercial diving.

 

But it's a bit rough on all the divers who are going to lose out on work because the ADCI will not be accepted by mainstream global industries.

 

But even rougher on the divers who are going to get hurt because dollars are more valuable than people.

 

And not so good for the families who are going to have to live with the consequences of more divers getting killed and maimed because the guardians of their industry accept blood on the floor as an acceptable consequence of making a bigger profit.

 

 

Now that really is a new definition of 'guardian'…..

 

And this thread isn't actually about IMCA or the rest of the world, this is about diving standards in the USA, and it is not really my fight, but as an outsider I am astounded that the ADCI are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

 

It seems to me quite bizarre that 'industry professionals' on either side of the fence would promote what everybody else apart from the ADCI knows are unsafe practices 

 

Does the lust for profit really take that much precedence over the sanctity of human life in the American diving industry? - That was rhetorical!!!! - Watching this debate, I guess we know the answer to that one

In answer to your final question Tim: these are the guys that see absolutely nothing wrong with a diver jumping 20 feet from a barge to the water, and then climbing a ladder at the end of the dive to get in the chamber. What do they do with an unconscious diver? They attach a crane hook to his harness, of course. Idiots!!

Update:

To see where we stand, and what the popular opinion is, I have been reviewing every single comment submitted to the NPRM. I am creating a spreadsheet covering the important points.( If someone wants details they can then read the whole document on their own).

 

But the intent of this is to provide us with a gauge of where the majority stands. Are they backing us up? Are we somehow alone in our beliefs? etc.

I am very concerned with the ADCI's stance given the heavy influence they seem to have over the USCG.

On a better note, I read IMCA's comments and they don't pull any punches. They are disappointed with all this and with the lack of attention given to the efforts of the NOSAC.

Three man minimum dive team? That doesn't exist. Five man team? Wishful thinking. Safety First? I don't think so. its MONEY FIRST!

Collusion!

The way I see it is we can strike, slow down, or have the ADCI leaders, OSHA reps, contractors, and or business agents suit up! How about they do the diving for now on. Let them take the risks. The only way anything is going to change is if the divers stick together. That's it. Simple, but you gotta find divers with balls. Only a few of them in the business left.

This is your answer,

Bill Kraus

 

"Just to clarify". If you don't like my statements, too bad.